Fueling with Sunshine: Page 3 of 3


Inside this Article

EV at PV-powered home
A solar car
Onboard PV is only adequate for specialty vehicles like this Solar Challenge endurance racer­—there’s no room for groceries.
Only stopping for directions…
Only stopping for directions…
EV charging
The EV charging station needn’t be near the PV array, nor does charging need to happen when the sun is shining.
EV at PV-powered home
A solar car
Only stopping for directions…
EV charging

Timing It Right

Time-of-use (TOU) electricity rates are an effective tool utilities use to discourage EV charging (and other electricity use) during peak electricity demand hours. TOU rates therefore reward households with net-metered PV systems that produce an excess of energy during the day, and use energy off-peak. That daytime surplus is credited at a higher rate; utility energy drawn at night is purchased at a lower rate.

Here’s an example: In my utility’s (PG&E) service area in the summer, off-peak electricity costs about $0.10 per kWh and peak electricity costs about $0.40 per kWh. If I fully recharge an 80-mile EV like the Nissan Leaf at night, it will cost about $2.40. If I recharged it during the day, I’d pay about $9.60. The point is that you save money on the electric fuel itself by charging at night. On top of that, if my PV system is producing surplus energy during peak hours, I am selling that energy back to the utility at the $0.40 rate­—instead of spending that valuable electricity to recharge my car.

But even without TOU metering, owning an EV and recharging it with a grid-tied PV system can make economic sense, and it doesn’t really matter which comes first—the system or the car. You can put the PV system in now, and be prepared for next year’s EV models to arrive, or start enjoying your EV’s fuel savings now, and install a PV system as the next step.

Web Extras

  • For a list of EV incentives state by state, check out bit.ly/EVIncentives.
  • Check out “Gear” in this issue for a rundown of available EVSEs.

Comments (24)

Frank Heller's picture

Palm Springs is not Maine; and my neighbor's new solar PV panels are encased in snow and ice and have been for almost two weeks.

Going off the grid because you 'hate' utilities is one thing, going off the grid because you've adopted a 'liberty loving' lifestyle is another, or because you have the technical proficiency to install and tend a large PV system.

A connection to the grid is a major decision and my friends who live off the grid would prefer to live with a minimum of electricity in their homes.

Then there are the solar farm capitalists who not only want to generate solar power but sell it into the grid....but to do so means you have to play by PUC and utility rules, or change them through democratic process, and in the process become a 'regulated' entity. Micro grids powered by solar are the latest marketing binge and a lot of money is being spent on lobbying the legislature to break down the regulations and protections so they can 'sell' excess power produced AND take power from the grid when the system isn't producing or has stored enough.

The best option is to retain the protection of the grid and the billion dollar investment made for the wind industry; and expand our abundant local hydro capacity.....which is exactly what a new hydropower plan to be released tomorrow will do.

Robert Pollock_2's picture

The Utilities are looking for ways to stay in the game. Once the centralized grid is history, how diversified will the 21st century grid be? For us in Palm Springs, CA, the sun belt, any grid that services buildings further than you can see, isn't necessary, if everyone incorporated systems available today. SouthCalEdison offers EV owner's a special rate plan, where all the electricity you can use between midnight and 6:00 am is 11 or 12 cents per kw.
If person just added a 21 kwh battery, like the one in my Spark EV and available now on Craig's list, they could charge the car and a 20 kw battery during those hours, then use the electricity in the battery to run the house the rest of the day. All your electricity at 12 cents, instead of the 26 or so cents we pay now. A saving of over 50% on your electric bill for an investment of a few thousand dollars and almost nothing to install, or maintain.
Once people start figuring these things out, the Utilities will be forgotten like black & white tv.

Steve Heyer's picture

Frankly, I always find it best to avoid feeding the Trolls. :)

Excellent and timely article. Now that our Wisconsin utility has pulled the rug out from under grid tied solar, we are planning to divert our PV power production into an EV.

The utility, blessed by the PSC (what does the P stand for?) propagated a divide and conquer storyline, characterizing us as grid tied solar free riders, using the grid for free. Of course if the door swings both ways, the utility is using our power production facility for free.

Only a few years ago, our utility spent 2.3 billion upgrading the Oak Creek facility on Lake Michigan, passing the costs on to customers with exorbitant rate increases.

Easy to divide and conquer when the utility owns the bully pulpit, the PSC and the governor.

I've made peace with the forthcoming diversion to EV. Less likely to be wasted through the inefficiencies of society.

Debbie Crutcher's picture


The article has to do with using PV solar energy to offset energy consumed from a utility company and then to use some of this energy to charge an EV. There is no question that many people will benefit from this. On my Arizona home, my PV system is now producing a positive cash flow after 6 years. I am building an electric motorcycle for the experience of building and using a vehicle that is free from dependance on fossil fuels. Form your posts, none of this will be cost effective where you are.

It seems blatantly obvious that you have an agenda posting here with an anti PV solar attitude. Many of us that read these comments are either involved in the PV industry as a dealer/installer or we are consumers using PV solar power. To us, your comments are simply antagonistic and don't seem to contribute to this discussion.

Frank Heller's picture

...and people "involved in the PV industry as a dealer/installer" don't have an agenda? No wonder you/won't to answer the objections I've raised let alone dare to objectively evaluate other renewable alternatives. Maine is a long way from Arizona; and our solar days are very limited---the blizzard will cover my neighbor's panels for days. Maine has one of the most abundant water supplies in N. America; and our economy was built around water power for a very long time.

A number of my clients are in tune with 'off-the-grid' living and cannot do it with solar alone; but can with hydro.

Good luck with your electric motorcycle, electric motor bikes are all the rage in Vietnam now and showing upin the U.S..

Debbie Crutcher's picture

I am sure, as you are, some people in any industry have agendas. To insinuate I won't answer your question because I have an agenda, and considering that you don't know me, suggests you are narrow minded. I have no agenda but that of practicality and economic sustainability when choosing sources of energy other than fossil fuels. When it is impractical for someone to use a renewable resource, I am with them on that decission. I don't answer because your comments are not pertaining to the subject matter of this article: using a PV system to charge EV batteries. Please, tell me something good about this article.

There's a blizzard headed your way. Stay safe.

doug stecklein's picture

Lee pointed out fugitive emissions, which is a very legitimate concern for natural gas, actually making natural gas a bigger emitter of GHGs than coal in many areas of the country. He also pointed you to several studies on the topic. You changed the subject.
Your response: "Fugitive emissions? Honda's CNG engines have been rated the cleanest made and then you have child labor making solar panels."

Your response has nothing to do with fugitive emissions. Do you even know what fugitive emissions are?
And why, in the same sentence throw in child labor?
Your responses tell people a lot about your motives and you obviously have an agenda to promote CNG and denounce renewables as an inferior energy source.

Frank Heller's picture

Fugitive emissions....official def...."The EPA defines “fugitive emissions” in the regulations
promulgated under title V as “those emissions which could not
reasonably pass through a stack, chimney, vent, or other
functionally-equivalent opening” (see title 40 of the Code of
Federal Regulations, sections 70.2 and 71.2). This definition is
identical to the definition of “fugitive emissions” adopted by
EPA in the regulations implementing the new source review (NSR)"

Does the Chinese solar industry pollute?...."In September 2011, Chinese villagers in Haining, Zhejiang Province staged a mass three-day protest of a nearby Jinko Solar factory after the death of a large number of fish in the local water supply. Jinko Solar, which made solar panels for export and is a subsidiary of the publicly traded Jinko Solar Holding Company, had been previously found to be “discharging excessive pollutants” and was ordered to fix the problem, but was still allowed to operate.

A local business owner said “pollution in the area had been very common, as factories, mostly those specializing in solar panels and related technology, flourished …”

The real cost of making solar panels..."The Story of How Xianghe Chemical Factory Poisoned a Local Community
Located in Hunan Province along the Liuyang River, Xianghe Chemical Factory produced extremely toxic metals like cadmium and indium, both used the production and manufacture of solar panels. But two years after the factory was shuttered, thousands of villagers in Hunan were “still living in the shadow of one of the worst pollution scandals on the mainland,” reported the South China Morning Post. “The factory had been illegally producing indium since 2004 without necessary safety facilities for dealing with the toxic waste, which was discharged, untreated, into the Liuyang River.”

Three out of four villagers suffer from excessive levels of cadmium in their blood. Cadmium damages the kidneys and the liver and, found the newspaper, “can cause cancer and failure of the nervous system and lungs.… The villagers are struggling to cope with their illnesses without proper medical support, let alone fair compensation.”

Clinical autopsies on part-time Xianghe Chemical Factory workers showed “they died of brain damage and multiple organ failure, including their lungs, liver and kidneys, caused by acute cadmium poisoning.”

How come I never hear anyone in solar complaining about the loss of rare earth metals?

for the record I not only am a certified solar installer, but an expert in microhydro....which is usually preferred over solar and wind in cost/benefit studies and is a much more dependable renewable than either solar or wind, esp. valuable considering how you can store water when you can't store either wind or solar radiation, but have to resort to highly problem-some and inefficient storage technologies for the electricity. 'Stored' water can also serve as a water supply, a recreational facility, or protection against fires and drought. Batteries release 'fugitive' emissions, so.....

doug stecklein's picture

If you have a legitimate concern about renewable energy sources, by all means state it. But if all you are here to do is bash renewables to support your own agenda then I would advise you go somewhere else.

Frank Heller's picture

As someone who's been in the renewable energy field for several decades; I get pushed hard by my clients to justify my recommendations.

I suggest if you want to be a credible source of information and not some bubble-brained, 'green' cultist, I suggest you do the same. The concerns are legitimate and well documented, I advise you to go research them out.

Frank Heller's picture

CNG can be made through abiotic processes well below the sedimentary layers....CNG can also be made from organic materials. Fugitive emissions? Honda's CNG engines have been rated the cleanest made and then you have child labor making solar panels.

Fracked wells aren't as bad as the wind/solar industry have made them out to be; however solar panels are contributing to the disappearance of 'rare earth' metals, some say faster than fossil fuels.

Everything has a down side, and natural gas pipelines now network large regions of Maine; and its available 24/7.

In Europe they are selling home CHP systems powered by natural gas. They are far more common in Japan.

****One pipeline supplies heat, fuel and electricity
, now that's efficiency!

Lee Carruthers's picture

Frank, have you considered the source of CNG? Most of the natural gas now available in North America comes from fracked wells. You will find several studies (Cornell and Stanford among them) that have found fracked gas is worse than diesel, and even coal in terms of GHG emissions when analyzed from well to burner. Fugitive emissions are a huge problem. Natural gas is not the "bridge" fuel it is portrayed to be by the fossil fuel industry.

Frank Heller's picture

Hi Debbie, where you live has everything to do with how much radiance your panels will receive, and prevailing weather is another compounding factor. According to the NREL solar radiance map, Maine only gets 2-3 kWh/sq. meter/day. Snow, rain, shade further reduce radiance received. Most people don't have tracking panels, which cost more and may take energy to run.

The new panels have all those microcircuits, far more than ones made in 1980's; and like your car or other electronics, are bound to fail....Panels last a long time, but output fades .

Investment over time; if I take the $6,000 and invest it at 6 percent, over the 20 yr. life of the system--if they last 40 years, how come the warranties aren't that long?, assuming no O&M, it will earn $7,200. The difference between the $6,000 and $7,200 is $1,200 about the cost of a CNG system in the garage. The cost of natural gas is an unknown; as is the cost of power from the grid when your panels aren't able to keep your car charged up.

PV panels could well displace my solar thermal tubes and that would be a real loss, another negative factor,

The cost of maintaining an electric car for 20 years w/ battery, etc. change outs is very expensive, while CNG cars will run for a long time and can even go multi-fuel if need be.

Sailors can keep batteries charged with taft rail chargers like the AMPIR which are powered by the current, when tied up or sailing. Investment is $3,000 but the comfort is you don't need an extension cord to keep your running lights on. Flexible solar panels on the deck are getting popular at local marinas, but batteries are still a PIA.

I'm currently working on micro grids that are joint PV and micro hydro >100 KW. Despite 50 year +lifespans, even hydro needs a bit of down time for maintenance, so the solar panels will come in handy.

Michael Welch's picture
Hi Frank. I don't think new PV modules have any more internal connections than the old ones, on a per-cell basis. They do have more cells per module than 1980s models, but that just makes them more cost-effective. Other than these cell interconnects and a couple of diodes in series, I am not aware of any microcircuits in PV modules. If your car lasts 20 years, how come your car warranty doesn't? The cost of maintaining and using an EV for 20 years is not more than a car with an internal combustion engine.
Frank Heller's picture

Just one of those snarky comments some engineer made about some new panels being marketed....don't know whether its true or not; and never will until a few years go by....Really tired of neat inventions breaking down.

Lets see that 20 yr. old Tesla or Volt's maintenance and repair records.

Michael Welch's picture
You want CNG in your car and that's that. Just be cautious about cherry picking the good and the bad just because they support what you want to do.
Frank Heller's picture

Exactly; the wind farmers did a wonderful job of cherry picking data to support their permit applications. They avoided discussion of the impact of the billion dollar transmission lines and the clear-cuts of forest needed for them, access roads and turbine pads. When added up one proposed farm removed approx. 400 acres of forest, and with it the ability to remove hundreds of tons of CO2 and sequester tons of carbon for as long as 100 years......yet despite this averse impact on CO2, they still receive a full subsidy with no deductions or DEP requirement for a reforestation offset.

The other big lie skillfully marketed to decision makers was using the nameplate capacity as the actual output; which we know is about 24% of the nameplate...but the marketing hype continues about how many homes can be powered up----'homes' well outside of Maine, since the power generated is sold out of State and in Canada.

Maine has thousands of electric 'cars' mostly serving golf courses and college campuses. One golf course has a 'toxic' waste dump of leaky batteries and went back to gas fired carts. Another company had a similar experience and switched back to propane fork lifts.

Btw....at least until they catch on, there is no fuel tax on the CNG, unlike conventional fuels and electricity with its many surcharges.

...but if someone gives me a TESLA to use as a summer runaround car, I'll def. take it.

Michael Welch's picture
It is more likely that the anti-wind, anti-EV industries -- which includes the gas frackers, other fossil fuel industrialists, and the nuke industry -- cherry-pick and even fabricate problems in the RE world to bolster their own profits. They have quite the PR machines which are good at misleading otherwise good-hearted folks into siding with them.
Frank Heller's picture

I guess the NYTIMES is 'misleading otherwise good-hearted folks' too:

May 28, 2013
Solar Industry Anxious Over Defective Panels
LOS ANGELES — The solar panels covering a vast warehouse roof in the sun-soaked Inland Empire region east of Los Angeles were only two years into their expected 25-year life span when they began to fail.

Coatings that protect the panels disintegrated while other defects caused two fires that took the system offline for two years, costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenues.

It was not an isolated incident. Worldwide, testing labs, developers, financiers and insurers are reporting similar problems and say the $77 billion solar industry is facing a quality crisis just as solar panels are on the verge of widespread adoption.

No one is sure how pervasive the problem is. There are no industrywide figures about defective solar panels. And when defects are discovered, confidentiality agreements often keep the manufacturer’s identity secret, making accountability in the industry all the more difficult.

But at stake are billions of dollars that have financed solar installations, from desert power plants to suburban rooftops, on the premise that solar panels will more than pay for themselves over a quarter century.

The quality concerns have emerged just after a surge in solar construction. In the United States, the Solar Energy Industries Association said that solar panel generating capacity exploded from 83 megawatts in 2003 to 7,266 megawatts in 2012, enough to power more than 1.2 million homes. Nearly half that capacity was installed in 2012 alone, meaning any significant problems may not become apparent for years.

“We need to face up to the fact that corners are being cut,” said Conrad Burke, general manager for DuPont’s billion-dollar photovoltaic division, which supplies materials to solar manufacturers.

The solar developer Dissigno has had significant solar panel failures at several of its projects, according to Dave Williams, chief executive of the San Francisco-based company........"

suggest you google 'solar panel failures' and you'll read the 'other side' of PV.

Carl Wagner_2's picture

Great to see this article. For the vast majority of eco-drivers, recharging a hybrid is the relevant question (not an electric-only vehicle). It's good to see the comment here about charging one's Chevy Volt. I'd love to see more about solar-charging hybrids (Prius, Volt, etc). I charge my lead acid single 12v battery-powered lawn mower with 2 5 watt solar panels and, like the Volt owner here, can say that beyond the economics of the $30 spent 7 years ago for the panels, it feels great to power a major device off your own sun charging...

Debbie Crutcher's picture

Hi Frank,
Where you live has nothing to do with the size of PV system you purchase. Whatever you install will be converting X amount of light energy. X is converted to a dollar amount that is offseting your power consumption from the utility.

With the lower insolation in Main, it will take longer for X to return your investment than it will a system in Arizona.

You also seem to think that the "300 microcircuits" are going to fail. The fact is a PV solar module is one of the most reliable and trouble free electrical items on earth. I have some modules that were made in the late 1980's. They still produce 85% of their rated output. A PV system you install today will be making power 4 decades from now. You may have to replace the inverter and make some other repairts but the modules them selves will still be converting energy.

When calculating your ROI, you must figure in the future cost of energy that you don't have to pay for. What will your electric company be charging in 2035, or 2045?

Since you are an investor, you should calculate your life-cycle payback. One simple calculation is to estimate the cost of energy that you are replacing over the life of the system, you should find that PV solar, for the most part, is less expensive than utility power. In coastal Maine, perhaps not, but most places, yes.

Frank Heller's picture

Just for the exercise, since I hadn't done it for a while I checked out prices for a 2.5KW solar system---which probably needs to be larger since Coastal Maine is like Seattle, i.e. cloudy, rainy, snowy.

One D.Y.I, grid tied 'kit' with ten panels was $5,648.19; exclusive of installation, electricians, compliance with electric company provisions for a grid tie, maintenance, a charging station; and assuming you have a 41 pitch roof capable of holding 10 panels.

The alternative is another alt. fuel vehicle like the CNG Hondas an increasingly popular investment being considered by those of us now connected to a natural gas pipeline; extending the line to a garage sited compressor was estimated at $800 for line and compressor & storage tank. Fuel up is considerably less than a plug in.

As an investor, anytime someone tells me how much money I'm going to save; they never calculate the lost income from spending an investment on something like Solar PV to charge a car; rarely do they ever mention the cost and liability of breakdowns---300 microcircuits in the avg. panel, and time lost waiting for repairs.

I'd suggest a real fact check w/spread sheet on the costs vs. expenses over time and compared with the value of an alternative investment.

jcorning's picture

I've been charging my Chevy Volt with a grid-tied PV system since 2011. No matter how you calculate the economics, it's very satisfying in several ways:
1) After all the ups-and-downs of the oil economy (not to mention our ongoing military entanglement in the Middle East), driving on locally harvested sunpower really feels good.
2) In areas with inexpensive grid power, the payback for a PV system can still be a fairly long time. Once you start competing with the cost of gas (even at it's new low) the payback for PV used to charge your car is much quicker.
3) We've all learned to drive gently and accelerate slowly to conserve fuel, about the only way we can try to be sustainable with fossil fuels. But, when you're driving on renewable energy, there is not quite the same need to drive so conservatively. In fact, I can see no reason not to have fun driving again, and indulge in the occasional spirited acceleration. My Volt won't burn rubber, but it will come pretty close!

649's picture

Re Choosing a charger ( for your EV)
Anyone besides me think that $700 (plus install) is a lot to pay for a 25 foot #10 extension cord? Surely many HP readers are DIYers who can assemble a charging station and hard wire it too. How about a DIY column with detailed plans for projects like an EV charging station?

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